Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

These come in long barrel or short barrel [carbine] models. They had some modifications made over the years and I think the ones made around WW2 have the changes. There are a few around that were made in Finland, these are the best ones.

Some are round receiver and some are hex. Hex is supposed to be better.

They all use the 7.62x54R cartridge. That is the only round they will fire.

Not 7.62x39, not 7.62x51, only 7.62x54R

I believe they only hold 5 rounds.

These guns have been in storage for decades covered in cosmoline. Plan on a thorough disassembly and cleaning prior to shooting. The bolts on many of them won't rotate properly until they have been cleaned.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

aimsurplus.com has a bunch. They also have cheap ammo.

These wont take ANY 7.62 round, only 7.62x 54r, which is pretty close in size to .308.

Its a bolt action rifle that was used by literally millions of Russian conscripts in both world wars. Not really much you need to learn about using it, pretty much all bolt action guns are the same.

Keep in mind, all ammo is corrosive for them (surplus anyways), so wash the bore down with windex or some other type of corrosive ammo cleaning solvent as soon as you are done shooting it.

Also, buy lots of ammo, because once what is left is gone, thats it.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

A Finnish M39 Mosin sniper is en rout. Can't wait to test it on the range. Gunboards is replete with good info about Mosins.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

R is for Russian IIRC, the other 7.62 is a pistol round (7.62x25, one of my favorites).

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Also, the "nice" Mosins are mathing numbers..

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

First off, magazine capacity on all Mosins is 5 rounds.

Try this link for the best mosins, the Finnish re-built (Tikka, Sako) M-39, including 'antique' guns that you can have sent directly to your house.

http://www.gunsnammo.com/

Excellent rifles. They didn't come off the line unless they fired within 3cm at 100 meters.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...5/ai_n31006399

http://62x54r.net/

http://www.surplusrifle.com/mosincarbine/index.asp

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Sounds like a good plan.

Whats not to like about the rifle?

It's very durable,simple,powerful.

The only 2 downsides I see is the capicity
and the supply of bulk ammo.

However I dont see the capacity issue
as a big deal at all....but some people
think if it holds less than 30 its junk.

Hell ya..if I had the $$$ I wouldnt be shy about
doing that at all.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

7.62x54 and 7.62x54R are the same thing. 7.62x54R is the correct designation, but some people just get lazy and leave off the "R". the "R" stands for rimmed, by the way, not Russian as is commonly believed.

The 7.62x54R was first adopted by the Russian Army in 1891. It originally had a round nose 210-grain bullet. It was first used in battle in the Russian-Japanese war of 1904.

In 1906, the 148-grain spitzer bullet was added to it. This was the standard load used in WWI and the Russian Revolution.

It's still used today as a sniper load and has the distinction of being the oldest military cartridge still in service.

There is also a Finnish round, 7.62x53R, which is almost the same as the 7.62x54R, but uses a .308 bullet instead of .311. Before the Winter War, Finnish Mosins were chambered for .308 bullets. After the Finn obtained massive amounts of captured Russian ball ammo in 1939, they started changing over to "D" bores, which run about .311 or .310. Older Finnish Mosins were often bored out to the new diameter. Look for the "D" stamp.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Good info^

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

bought my last 2 from

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info....oducts_id/2570

look like they are brand new plus the hex is a plus

I have 6 and theses where the best 2 I have bought got about 3 weeks ago
1932 and a 1934

one week from order to my ffl

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Oh.........Thanks for that clarification I thought I was going to have to be spiliting hairs when I buy ammo for this stuff.

Thats a major relief.

Awesome post Dave :ok:


T

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Ummm...no. R is for Rimmed. As in 8x58R (Danish/Swedish) or 12.7x44R (Swedish) or 8x56R (Hungarian).

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

TA -

The 7.62x54R is a rifle round. It is NOT a "sniper round", except in certain loadings. Yes, there are sniper rifles chambered in this caliber (Dragunov, MN91/30 PU Sniper)..., but the round itself is not a "sniper" round, or an "armor piercing" round. It's a rifle cartridge. Yes, it will punch through soft body armor, but so will a lever action .30-30. There are "sniper" rifles in .308, .30-06, and .223. This does NOT mean that all rifles or cartridges in those calibers are "sniper" grade, or are designed for use by snipers.

The Mosin Nagant is a great rifle, and I highly recommend it. It is NOT "magic", and should not be treated as such.

How many versions...gosh! At the top of my head, there are:
MN91
MN91/30 (& PU/PEM sniper variants)
MN44
T53 (Chinese)
MN91/59
MN38
MN39 (Finn)
MN27 (Finn)
MN28 (Finn)
MN28/30 (Finn)

They fire the same cartridge, and are all 5 round magazine capacity. Some are carbine length, some are rifles. Some carbines have attached bayonets (T53, MN44), some do not (MN38, MN91/59).

Garands can be a bit picky as to the type of ammo, since they're gas operated. Use the wrong ammo (or reload with the wrong powder), and you'll bend the operating rod, mucking things up pretty badly. Same with the FN49 or Hakim - use the wrong powder or surplus ammo, and you may explode the rifle (oops!).

Darn near ANY MN rifle is great in terms of service & reliability. They were designed to be used/maintained by peasant armies - not high tech armorers.

They do have some flaws.
Trigger pulls can suck (this can be tuned by some careful polishing).
Feeding of cartridges may be finicky (due to the rimmed cartridges)
Recoil is not minor (especially with carbines).
Oddball "foreign" caliber, not commonly found on Walmart shelves.
Lacquered cases can stick in hot chambers, resulting in heavy bolt lift force (a 2x4 or boot heel helps in this situation) .

There are a number of good websites about the Mosin Nagant rifle, including forums.gunboards.com, 7.62x54r.net, and surplusrifle.com .

The Mosin Nagant is not a delicate, touchy-feely sort of rifle. They do not break easily by dry firing or routine manipulation.

It's pretty easy to get "versed" with the rifle. Use a SKS front sight adjusting tool (or just a brass punch & a hammer) to adjust windage. Elevation can be tweaked by the rear sight, or by using a roll pin (ground to adjust the length) pressed over the front sight.

They are pretty amazing, and fun to shoot. I've collected them for ~10 years. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Glad that I have the 2 Nagants that I do. One of each barrel length. I think everyone should take advantage of this amazing opportunity. Almost any other firearm that you spend $79.00 on, is going to be a piece of crap! I bought one of those synthetic stocks for the Nagant. Haven't put it on yet. It's a nice update item.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Which MN variant is your favorite, or the highest quality? I am thinking of also picking one up. I figure, for $70, why not.

I have fired one before and think that they are awesome, especially for the price. I just don't look forward to cleaning it the first time.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Can I claim credit for it ??? :36_3_12:

I have Two (2) Mosin 91/30's on order - hex receivers.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I heartily agree.

BTW, always feed your MN cartridges with the top rim in front of the bottom rim. In other words, load the top bullet's rim in front of the bottom bullet's rim. That is the way it is designed to work with rimmed cartridges. sounds stupidly simple, I know, but until I understood that I couldn't load my MN with stripper clips.

But that is the wonderful thing about MN's. They are stupidly simple, extremely rugged long range tools.

And with the Finns, if the bore is still in good shape, you have a rifle you know will be as accurate as you can be.

Click this for a Humorous Comparison of an AK47, an AR15 and a Mosin.

http://www.mouseguns.com/compare.htm

It has been posted before, and here it is again.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Well its about dam time you showed up on this thread.

You Know how skittish I get.:bear_w00t:

Im Still waiting for Ruprick,Silver City,Wallew and Eat Beef to weigh in


I am looking hard on getting it from classic how is the one the pic?

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Wow......can a MN REALLY dislocate a shoulders???

:36_1_25:

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

What's your problem? You've got 2 shoulders. RIGHT?

RIGHT??

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

My mostest favoritestest MN is probably the Finnish MN39.

The Finns took great care in producing rifles with accuracy. They polished/ground the sear/bolt stop to improve the trigger pull. Some models (MN27, I think) actually had added springs & altered triggers to yield much nicer trigger pulls.

They even installed shims between the barrels/receivers & stocks.

They used 2 different varieties of wood (usually Arctic Birch on the front 1/3 & "normal" Birch on the rear 2/3) in the stocks, so as to minimize wood expansion/contraction in the temperature extremes & improve accuracy.

VERY different than the mass produced Soviet MN rifles.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Dam, I forgot about that!!!

The Good Lord provides!!!!


:565::565::565::565::565:

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Well, I was GOING to post the 'what you need to know about ...' but Reviver beat me to it.

I particularly like these:

You dig your ammo out of a farmer's field in Ukraine and it works just fine.

Your rifle's accessory is a small tin can with a funny lid, but its buried under an apartment building somewhere in Budapest.

Your rifle's finish is low grade shellac, cosmoline and Olga's toe nails.

I don't see how you can go wrong with a MN. They are great rifles as long as you realize they are a monster recoil machine. But the 54R round IS a good one.

That's the same round that is used in Dragunov Russian sniper rifles. AND YES, they DO MAKE silver tip SNIPER AMMO. It's getting hard to find, but IT USED TO BE that it was no more expensive than the regular surplus.

But that was at least two years ago.

I guess the only caution I would offer is, if you are going to purchase an MN, consider buying two. That way one can be used as a parts rifle IF you break something. Second thing is buy ammo by the case. LOTS OF AMMO, because trust me when I tell you pretty soon you won't be able to get it any more. Once it's gone, it's gone. Not that it's going to disappear overnight, but disappear it will in the long run.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Thanks Wall I appreciate the insight.

I am a man that belives in TRIPPLE REDUNDENCY.

3 at the LEAST. :ok:


T

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

One word: Reloading

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA280_.jpg

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Good luck with the Berdan Primers.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I'm a little whiff of a guy and I can shoot my MN all day long. My 12ga shooting 8 shot hits me harder. I do have a recoil pad on the buttstock but, hey, so does my 12ga. I've heard shooting the heavy ball AP rounds puts a bit more kick into it. I've only fired the light ball bulgarian and russian stuff. Typical 30cal kick, really more of a shove.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

The posse pic of the young toughs w/ guns and ma-KEH-TAYs got me in a giggle fest.
Oh, how I twittered.
MN be fun. That's the key word: fun.
Go buy a deer rifle.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

The ability to reload for MN & SKS rifles is a good thing to have. Bullet diameter is NOT the same as a regular .308 or 7.62x51 round. The Soviet bullets run larger (~0.311" - 0.314" or thereabouts). In a SHTF situation, though, I could deal with a .308 bullet rattling down the bore. Better that than nothing, I guess.

A decent source for 7.62x54R brass is www.grafs.com . It's about $42/100 pieces. Unless you're using surplus .311-.312 bullets form Wideners, you may need to use bullets originally meant for the .303 British (or 7.7 Japanese) round.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Still available within reasonable prices is the Prvi Partizan 7.62x54R 150grn SP for $115 plus shipping for 200 boxer primed brass case reloadable ammo at AIM:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/P...150grn_SP.html

See here for surplus 7.62x54R:

http://gun-deals.com/ammo.php?caliber=7.62x54R

And another MN Finn M39 site, as well as all MNs:

http://mosinnagant.net/finland/finni..._nagantm39.asp

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Boxer primed 7.62x54R brass is readily available at this time. If you want to be able to feed your MN far into the future, now might be the time to buy some!

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Rare, but if you can find one is the venerable MN Finnish M28/30 (predecessor to the M39), considered the finest most accurate MN of all time. It used a bore of .3082, the same as the normal .308 Winchester bore.

The M28/30 is hard to find, and the last few on Gunbroker fetched $500 to $600.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I currently own two of these, both from the Ishvesk mfg. site. 1933 and a 1944 model. Both are full length. I'm buying a carbine version, 1954 IIRC, this weekend as I'm on a binge of buying. lol

Yeah, they kick but an aftermarket recoil pad for 10 bucks is well worth it. The kick is no where near as bad as the 12 gauge with slugs. lol

Good resources:

The Mosin-Nagant (for Collector's Only) - Great book for reference, tells a lot about the stamps, markings, models, etc.

For great surplus ammo information, look here. Data on the various surplus ammo floating around. I like Bulgarian myself. Here is another good ammo link.

General Mosin-Nagant information.

I really like these rifles, esp for the price. That is why I'm buying a third. Even, have my eyes on a pre-Soviet, 'white Russian' version. I really want one of the Winchester manufactured ones. That would be sweet.

Blorp

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Yes, the MN28/30 is a very nice rifle. I haven't slugged the bore on mine.

For folks interested in Finnish MN rifles, I highly recommend Doug Bowser's book Rifles of the White Death. Doug is also a most excellent gentleman, and is still involved in competitive shooting down in sunny MS.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Negative. You can load each round by hand. In fact, depending on the quality of your clips, this is likely to be preferable. The clips do wear out with use as well.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

What's to think about, TA? Get thee to the gun store with a bore light and buy one! A bore light is a very handy tool to have when looking at mil-surp guns, to inspect the rifling. I wouldn't want your first MN to be a shot-out POS.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I hear the ones running around at J&G Sales are in good condition. The one I grabbed off of classicarms.us had a great bore but the stock was a bit beat. You need to learn the blood, sweat and tears of cosmoline anyway. Get to it.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Oh........ so I have to "bake" these???

The ones on Classic look pretty good I asked (Ms Jane) and told all the one they have are very good quality.(they look as clean as a whistle in that pic)

I didnt think to ask her about cosmoline........ I will tommarow.


T

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

You ain't getting one under a $100 sans cosmoline, bro. It's a rite of passage. Quitcher wining.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

OK OK I give up.... you have your meathooks into me... I was going to sell my Finn M39, but NOW, thanks to all these posts, I have to feed my jones and buy a handfull of MNs... Thanks A LOT....
:36_1_30:
no seriously...
:Surrender:

thanks!
bancha

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I guess that's one good reason to pick one up at a brick & mortar. Mine was $79.00 and had already been cleaned by the store. Plus, no shipping charges, or FFL transfer fees, etc.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

IOW, the cosmoline lies in the hidden spaces and sweats when it's hot. Get to work.:biggrin:

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I agree with the need to check the bore on any surplus rifle. DO NOT be alarmed if the rifling is "missing" on the last inch or so at the muzzle. Counterboring is fairly common with well used MN rifles, and is a way to "refresh" the muzzle crown (after it was worn away by vigorous Ivan cleaning rod use).

There's probably no need to bake the stock on a recently imported MN. Most don't have tons of grease soaked into the wood. You will enjoy (?) scraping/dissolving the cosmolene off the rifle, the bore, the stock,....

One warning on MN rifles. The stock finish is typically shellac. Many bore cleaning solvents, and even ammonia/water can attack that finish. If this happens, no biggie - grab a can of shellac from the local hardware store. Pick up your brush, dip it in the shellac, drop it on a dirty floor, redip the brush, apply a thick, dripping layer over the messed up spot. Just like in mother Russia!

One other warning - with the bayonet attached to a MN91/30, you now have a VERY long pig sticker. It is extremely easy to accidentally poke a hole in your ceiling. Go 'head - try it!

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Yeah, I pay 100 or 120 locally. I've bought one clean and one cosmoed. They had 5 or 6 in the shop the other day. I don't recall if the carbine I wanted to buy was clean or not. Seemed mixed, but lately they have been in better condition. Lots of rifles in very good condition coming through.

I didn't bake either of mine. I did sand and re-stain one. Yeah, call me Bubba, I don't care. It looked like crap. The other is left original.

I want the carbine because I think it will be easier to deal with. The full length version is a pain to maneuver in a deer stand.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Try a 91/59. Cut about 12" shorter and no bayo. The problem with bayo is the sights are set for bayo extended. If the bayo is removed or folded your shot is totally different. You have to clean the corrosive primers off the bayo as well. As for stock finishes I found boiled linseed oil a perfect fix for everything across the board.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

And yes, ammonia mixed with water = windex=remedy for corrosive ammo. Or Sweets Solvent. Use in a well ventilated area.

Here I was, happy with my Springfield 1903, now you're making me want to buy the rooskie rifle to give it a street smart friend.

Nothing like a quality firearm that can be disposed of in a pinch without breaking the bank.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I figure the MN is the perfect cache/stash rifle.....

cheap
still packed in cosmolene
good gun

i dont know :biggrin: but they would be great to plastic pack with 500rds of ammo each in a pvc tube and bury in places you might need in the future


but that is just a thought for us paranoid types :wink:

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Dammit, TA! Now you got me thinking about getting another two or three (gotta get more than one to justify the shipping costs).

What I find ironic is that about a year to 18 months ago, you could get the MN-44 for $50-$60, always a good $10 - $20 cheaper than a 91/30. They were so cheap, one just assumed you could get them anytime, anyplace. Now you can't find them anywhere.

So yeah, you can't go wrong. I've got a C&R license, so I can get them shipped right to my door. I have two in hand, two more on the way from Aim Surplus, and I just might get a couple more from J&G.

Pull the trigger, TA - your only regret will be that you didn't get more!:coolbeer:

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I cleaned 4 of them I hated it

last 2 I picked up from J&G had a gunsmith clean and test fire for $35 a gun
well worth it.
easy way of cleaning the stock is get a 12 pack of beer pair of shorts take shirt off and lay the riffle in the sun drink a beer wipe gun drink a beer wipe gun
do the 12 times and the cosmoline just come right out.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I think I'm going to pick one or two up, whenever they go one sale at Big 5 Sporting goods, which is nearly all the time. One month they'll have the carbines for $79.00, then the next month the 91/30 for the same price, or ten bucks more maybe. I can envision a rack full of Nagants in the personal armory, ready for the volounteers!

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Did I hear a recommendation for the next GIM round image???
:553:

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

You mean racks sort of like these (no, not mine!)??

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Yep, and racks like this one
http://thedolk.com/junk/racknew_03.jpg

and this guy's
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j8...07/05_26_1.jpg

this guy too
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/5...eraanitis9.jpg

it goes on all day long at 7.62X54r.net
http://7.62x54r.net/Forums/index.php...tach=292;image

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Another nice shot:
http://frontpage.simnet.is/ingvarg/Byssur/IMG_5330.JPG

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

More
http://7.62x54r.net/Forums/index.php...tach=709;image

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

All Finns
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...ishMosins1.jpg

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Bah, go read the forum and especially the collection threads, yourselves. Maybe even register and get sucked in with the rest of us.
http://7.62x54r.net/Forums/index.php?topic=33.0

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Nice Racks!

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Love them Finn MN39 rifles!

For those reading this thread who have never held a MN39, they are NOTHING compared to a regular Soviet MN91/30, MN44, MN38,MN91.

The MN39 feels very solid & smooth in your hands. Wonderful trigger pull (for a MN, that is!). Front sight is screwdriver adjustable for windage, rear sight has fine adjustments for elevation.

Very pretty. In a manly-man sort of way, of course!

If you couldn't tell, these are probably my favorite MN rifle. I just wish I'd bought a bunch more when they were selling for "reasonable" prices.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

First time users of my favorite Mosin, which I affectionately call Olga, always ask me what is up with the trigger. Not a light trigger at all.

Never seen one for sale. I'm sure someday I will and that I will drop the cash on one.

BTW: I hesitated on the carbine today. It wasn't Russian, so I didn't recognize the markings. Came home and looked it up and it is a Hungarian model. I prolly still won't get it because of the way the follower was seated. Didn't look right, kinda cockeyed.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

www.aimsurplus.com has some good deals on mosins

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Jeez, will the last MN to leave Russia please turn out the lights.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

A word on ammo,

If buying new ammo, most are all lead with copper jacket. If buying surplus ammo, they generally are steel core with copper jacket :wink:

Those steel cores punch through steel like butter. We were shooting a thick steel box once, and it didn't even move as the round went through it. I thought we missed, but upon inspection there was a perfect whole in both sides of the box.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Dam that is awesome price!!! 70 bucks AND they are cleaned?

I will be giving them a call tommarow to get some more particulars.

Thanks IG!!!! :ok:


T

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

(insert devilish and crazy laugh) MWAhhhhaa MWWWAAHHAHAHAH HEHEHEH... HHAAA HAAA HHHAAAAHAHA.. AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!


I knew you would like that TA. :ok:

Also, once I tried punching through a 15mm steel plate, Range was only about 20 yards. Didn't get through though, but bulged the steel and only missed going though by 2-3 mm. I'm sure if it was at maximum penetrating range (probly about 200 yards) it would have passed through.

I have some of the silver tipped ammo, and I have also heard they are ment to be a more accurate round.

Finally, there was some exploding tip ammo made for the 7.62 * 54R, but I think they used it in machine guns mounted to planes and sh*t, and was loaded HOT, so might cause damage to the MNs.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

It is QUITE possible to lighten/smooth the trigger pull on MN rifles. No, it won't be as crisp as a nice Remington 700, but you'll end up with something a lot less crunchy than the average rifle.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

:553:Congrats on joining the Mosin Nagant club!:5_1_120: Enjoy your new (old) rifles, and remember that most of the mil-surp ammo is corrosive. No biggie on cleaning - see http://64.82.96.51/clean.htm (Empire Arms website).

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

As an aside, Dennis Kroh (the guy who runs Empire Arms, and who wrote the cleaning info listed above) is the former guitarist/producer of Triphammer, a 1970s rock band. He is SCRUPULOUSLY honest, a former (?current?) rare coin dealer, and a decent person all around. A genuine good guy, and a true gentleman.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I've got some Turk 8mm surplus ammo that's ~75+ years old. I, of course, would never think of using it as 'cop killer' ammo. Porcine terminating rounds, perhaps, but not 'cop killer'. :smile:

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I have an M-44. Kicks like a mule, but I'd still rather be on the recoil end than on the muzzle end. The bayonet, mostly useless except to make firearm-phobes all pissy pants, which is good enough reason to have one.

These Mosin's killed a helluva lot of Germans in World War II (and the Finn version killed a helluva lot of Russians also - karma really is a bitch, isn't it?).

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Not to mention keeping the rifle shooting to the point of aim. They behave entirely different without the bayo extended.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Okay, I'll bite. Exactly what does it do to the aim? I had a chance to put a few rounds through one of my M44s last summer, and I noticed each shot going to the left. Could that be caused by having the bayonet folded?

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I know it sounds like new agey baloney but the correct terminology would be barrel resonance.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

IIRC, the M-44's are supposed to be shot with the bayonet extended, because that is how they were designed. Does that sound correct?

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Thanks. I'll research that tomorrow. Next time I take it out, I'll try it with the bayonet extended and see what happens.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

By design means if you remove or underfold the bayo you will seriously screw up the harmonics or whatever new agey sounding term you want to apply to the barrel's reaction. It sounds like BS until you you compare the accuracy of bayo vs. non-bayo. There is a marked difference. You can reset your sights to accommodate no bayo but it's game over when you put the thing back on. The answer is 91/59.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

The local shop guy suggested Windex. Ammonia and in spray form, mixed and ready to go. I've been using it and don't have any rust that I can see.

Spray at the range, clean thoroughly when I get home. Probably treating that rifle better than it ever was in the motherland! lol

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Windex works very well - I've used it also. Some corrosive ammo requires cleaning over a period of 2-3 days to get it all out. This also probably depends a lot on your local conditions (humidity & such).

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

The sad thing is that 7.62x54R ammo was about HALF that price 2-3 years ago. Yes, less than 10 cents a round!

Buy what you need/want now. Ammo prices may go significantly up if imports are restricted.

Depending on the entire weight (ammo cans + wood crate), AIM might not ship the ammo in crate. Don't be unhappy if this happens. I think it's due to UPS package weight limits. The case (or 2 or 3 or...) of 5.45x39 I got from RGuns a few months ago was shipped in the wood crate, but that ammo is a wee bit smaller/lighter than 7.62x54R.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Thanks to the info on this thread I finally figured out what I bought 6 years ago at a gun show all cleaned up for $80.00 ......MN44 Soviet Izhevsk carbine made no earlier than 1945 and no later than 1948.
No bayonet though, guess I'll have to get one.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I likes me Mozeen Naygon. Original markings are Russian made 91 dated 1926. On a left side flat on the hex receiver inscribed is "91/30 Russian 7.62 x 54r". Redone at some point, but it does not say who or what year the refurbishment took place. I can only assume after 1930.

The stock is a very nice kind of a blonde wood. If it was shellac, then it's worn off because it seems like oiled wood. It's a long gun with no bayonet.

I really do like the gun and currently have maybe 800-900 rounds for it.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Looks like an Izhevsk Russian model 1926. Has all the markings. According to http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinProduction.htm

Dragoon
Izhevsk 1893-1932

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

The story is...Once upon a time, there was a little Combloc soldier. The benevolent State fully values its investment in human resources. The State issues only state of the art maintenance equipment, so that the little Combloc soldier can maintain his state of the art Mosin Nagant rifle. The end.

The bottles have 2 compartments - one for bore cleaning solvent, and the other for oil. For a nice document on identifying the source of Combloc bottles, see:

http://www.kalasnyikov.hu/dokumentum...%20bottles.doc

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I avoid the bayo issue completely by buying a M38 over the M44. I don't like the look of the bayonet on the M44, just from a esthetical POV. I'm looking for another M38, they seem a little hard to find. I'm going to scope the new one and put on a synthetic stock (heresy, I know!). The wood on my current M38 is really too nice to do that to.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

The MN38 is scarcer than the MN44. I like them, since they are lighter & easier to handle than the MN44 with extra steel stuck on the end of the barrel.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Would you tell us how this is done, please? Crunchy is a pretty good way of expressing the feel on my MN38. Kinda errr, snap, fire. Probably not the best way of expressing trigger pull, but the best I can do.
TIA!

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Guns and Ammo 2009 annual buyer's guide, page 57.

J&G sales has the mosin M91/30 for $69.95

At that price, it's worth it simply for a wall decoration.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

If you look carefully, you'll notice it's a 2 chambered oil bottle. One side for oil, the other side for your ammonia/water solution.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I'll start a separate thread with some helpful hints.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Does anyone know where I could get a carbine (38,44, 91/50) without paying through the nose on gunbroker? I would prefer the M38 or the 91/50 considering they don't have the bayonet.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Pat Burns has M38s for $128 plus shipping.

http://www.gunsnammo.com/

Please note no affiliation, just a satisfied customer.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Dude, thanks.

I think I will pick up one of his M38s!

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I just ordered one from that website a few minutes ago. :RockOn:

The confirmation email said that with the current backup, the order would take several days to process (plus the additional time it takes for the "hand selection"). How long did it take to get yours?


This thread is amazing. It is responsible for arming several more citizens.
Thanks GIM....well done.

:23_1_22:

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I really feel that same........ I was just looking to get a few question answered but then the heavy weights (some I didnt even know) came in a brought in a level of expertise that I would have never imagined.

I am really glad I asked about this and it pleases more than anything to know that I helped more than just myself.:bear_thumb::bear_thumb:


T

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

After reading this thread,.........thinking..........and yes, I agree that I don't really have enough.

BINGO ! ........added 2 more to the arsenal yet still feeling like I need more.

1 - Tula and 1 - Ishevek

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/PICT0518.jpg

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

That's actually ISHEVSK, not "Ishevek"....

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Or is it Izhevsk?

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Thanks for the correction.........I prefer Tula with the 'hammer' over Izzy. :bear_tongue:

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Once again, I believe it is Izhevsk, with a Z.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Yes, GoldWampum has the official 'correct' spelling with a 'Z'...........but again, I like the 'hammer' = Tula

http://www.mosinnagant.net/USSR/Russ...antNumbers.asp

:biggrin:

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

What's also neat is that the Izhevsk arsenal has evolved into Izhmash. According to Wikipedia, they currently make different weapons (including Saiga shotguns), along with cars & motorcycles. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izhevsk_Mechanical_Works
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ia/izhmash.htm

Now if you think spelling Izhevsk is a bit difficult, what about Sestroyetsk??

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I took my 1935 Mosin Nagant to the range today and fired off some of the Bulgarian surplus ammo from 1980 that I have.

Great day for me. I'm very happy with these groupings. 50 yards with a 74 year old rifle and 28 year old ammo. Not bad at all. *pats self on back*

I may have mentioned this stuff before, but here are a few suggestions/observations for those who buy one of these rifles:

1.) Find which ammo your rifle likes best. Try different batches of surplus ammo and then buy a ton of what your gun shoots best with. Other folks like the Serbian and Yugo surplus but it gets lousy groupings in my rifle. Mine likes Bulgarian and S&L match grade. (So I'm buying the Bulgarian at about 1/6th the cost.....)

2.) Cork it. Scroll down on this page and the author shows where to shim it. I sliced a wine cork really thin with a razor and cut to fit, instead of using brass. That simple step brought my groupings substantially.

3.) Repeated cleanings help. I used everything under the sun. lol Hoppe's, the regular and the copper solvent. Fired it a few times, cleaned after each use. Nasty stuff came out..... No telling how much of what was fired through these things.

4.) I'm using a Truglo 2X red dot scope and a Darrel's Scout Mount. Darrell's costs more than other solutions but it is a SOLID item. Best one I've seen. The red dot was something that I didn't consider, until I used one on a buddy's rifle. They are handy on the Mosin because they have unlimited eye relief.

BTW: That Bulgarian ammo I like so much... Very corrosive and dirty as my mouth... But I aint' complaining if it shoots well.

Here are some pics from today with a junk Morgan for reference. Figured that would be a fitting thing to add.

With a little TLC, these old inexpensive rifles can get pretty good groupings.

Blorp

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Nice shootin', Blorp! Thanks for the link for the scope mount.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

don't forget to get oil and solvent stocked up as well

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

You can use stripper clips. I haven't. I always load one at a time till I get 5 loaded up. Figured the purchase of the clips was an extra expense that I didn't need to make.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Oh yeah they do.

The important thing to remember when stacking rimmed rounds in your mosin is that the top rounds rim is in front of the bottom rounds rim. Loads better that way, but it is made for fools, and will tolerate your mistakes.

Not sayin you're a fool brother...

Shoot straight...

Remember what dub said...

Molon labe...



Bring it on...

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Hoppe's #9 is formulated to neutralize the corrosive salts left by the primers. I'd still use a hot water flush before cleaning.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

My Mosin Nagant just arrived two days ago - I can't wait to get it to the range this weekend!

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I was also inspired to pick one of these up last weekend along with 66 rounds of ammo to feed it with another 440 rounds being delivered today. As much as I'd like to take it out and bruise my shoulder, I think I'm just going set this package aside for awhile.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Center fire has a good deal on 440rd Spam Cans for 80 bucks

I would pick up a few as soon as the budget allows.


http://www.centerfiresystems.com/762...tam54r440.aspx

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Thank You!

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I use Hoppes powder solvent, and Remington gun oil. Just because it what is available.
I think I read some place that you use grease on the Mosin Nagants and I do recall seeing small tins of grease in the SKS that were sold about every place back in the early 90's.
I do not know where you use this grease, perhaps some one else does.
I have heard that the all in one type oil is not well suited for guns as it will get sticky over time.

I think it would be prudent to have plenty on hand because I know how a dirty rifle is not as fun as a clean one.
lot of boys were found in the mud with cleaning rods in their hands in s e asia, perhaps because of poor chambers on their issued rifles, or perhaps because of improper cleaning.
my .22 semi auto becomes a bolt action if it gets dirty. with out solvent and oil, I would be cranky

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Take it out and shoot it before you need it, you may fid you need to do some extra cleaning or something to make the bolt slide freely and in a nead situation you do not want to be fiddling around.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

No grease is really needed on Mosin Nagant rifles. You could add a dab at the cocking piece/sear interface for a smoother trigger pull, and maybe some on the cocking piece/bolt body camming surfaces, but this isn't really necessary. Plain gun oil works just fine for lubrication. I use Breakfree CLP, after cleaning with mil-surplus corrosive bore cleaner (or Windex).

The only "heavy duty" cleaning place on the MN might be the chamber walls, if there's lacquer melted in there. If left in place, that could result in difficult extraction/bolt opening.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

are you guys finding any ammo that is not FMJ?
the LGS has non corrosive primer steel shell, in the tin sardine cans, I am not quite sure, but I think they are FMJ

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

If you want SP, you need to go to Privi Partizan or Sellier Bellot (spelling is probably bad), or reload.

I've shot a bunch of the S&B through mine and it works pretty well.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

would some one enlighten me on FMJ, I know the SP and HP mushroom, but why is so much of the surplus FMJ? did they not want something that would mushroom so much?

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

My 2c is that FMJ is the standard mil ball ammo designed to wound rather than kill, that way you can take him and the two guys carrying him out of the theater of combat.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Most surplus is FMJ since it is nearly all coming out of military stores. Most ammo used in the military is FMJ, and it's rare to find anything else. This stems from Hague Convention "rules" on kind, sensitive, cruelty-free ammo to use when you're trying to kill your enemy.:sarc:

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

thanks meatman, got one of these on order this evening.
hand selected from J&G as you suggested. Shopped around 5 LGS's and found one with a stock of 10 or 12, but he was 100 bucks over the price I can get one shipped and pay the transfer fee.
they tried to talk me into buying 6 to get a discount.
guess it will take a couple of weeks to arrive.:565::5_1_120:

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

found a video on the disassembly of this rifle
he has a nice collection of other guns on his bed also

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

bought this scope and mount for one of mine
1 min to put on and works great

http://www.combathunting.com/ILLUMIN...Rifle_Kit.html

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I found this at overstock.com for $11 + 2 or 3 dollars shipping for one of my Mausers:
http://www.overstock.com/Sports-Toys...6/product.html

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

well for all of the info I have gained by reading your posts I would have to deplete my mercury dime stash!

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

I am considering this option as well, but I would like to get a mount that would allow me to keep my iron sites intact, I believe the scope mount that came with the sniper rifle would alow you to keep the iron sites.
I know this is redundant, but what if in a serious situation I knock my scope off or way out of alignment and do not have my iron sites.
I believe in redundancy and options should I need them.
I wonder if my best bet for this would be the original scope and mount?

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info....oducts_id/1059
http://www.bigskyguns.com/Yankee_Hil...uppressor.html
http://www.buymilsurp.com/pistol-par...c-3546_57.html
note that you can buy replacement .32 cylinder

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

that is the mount that came in my scope package, works great just pop the pin holding the rear site and install the mount where the pin was 30 secounds.

can't beat that price might have to buy a few of them

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

a really good article on a sticking bolt on the Mosin Nagant
http://www.surplusrifle.com/articles...burr/index.asp

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Looks like those cans are $110 now.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Ive ordered two 800 round cans from Aimsurplus. I have one already, the other I will probably get next week or so.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/C...ight_Ball.html

150 bucks for 800 rounds, and it looks really cool too!

One of these days I am going to get a rifle or three that shoot it!

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

ammunitiontogo is selling 440rds outside the can for 79.95.
Seems the can is running another $20 if you look elsewhere.
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...teel-core-ammo
The cans are nice, though. Wish I'd found this deal before I opened one of mine.

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

This is what makes a frenzy happen.

I swear imma go out and buy some more

My cans just jumped 40 bucks in value at the snap of a finger

Dam........this is surreal.


T

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

Where do you find mil-surp corrosive bore cleaner?

Re: Thinking REALLY hard on Mosin Nagants
 

You can find it on eBay or gunbroker.com. It's probably easier to find on eBay. Search for "bore cleaner".

If/when you pick some up, make sure it is the WWII version, not the Vietnam war era stuff (which is for non-corrosive ammo).

If you can see a closeup photo of the can label, it should show Specification and Purchase Order numbers. The stuff I have are "Specification RIXS-205 Rev 1" and "Spec RIXS-205 Rev #1 & Amend. #3". The purchase order numbers on my cans start with a "43-" or "44-", which suggests they're from 1943 & 1944.

I've seen 2 versions of this stuff - a milky white version (which has a decent smell), and the more common nasty brown smelly stuff. They both work well on corrosive ammo.

Here are a few examples I found online:

http://cgi.ebay.com/WWII-US-GI-BORE-...3%3A1|294%3A50

http://cgi.ebay.com/WWII-RIFLE-BORE-...3%3A1|294%3A50

http://cgi.ebay.com/WWII-2oz-Bore-Cl...3%3A1|294%3A50

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=125200892

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=125285378

Some of these are for 2 oz cans, while others are for 6 oz. I've only bought 6 & 32 oz cans in the past, since 2 oz seems awful dinky.